Page 1 of 29 
 
Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Angeline Tobin Frank 
1980  
Cassette 1, Side 1 
 
 
Winona Weber  00:03 
Would you give your name?  
 
Angeline Frank  00:05 
Angeline [inaudible].  
 
Winona Weber  00:08 
Frank?  
 
Angeline Frank  00:09 
Yeah, Frank.  
 
Winona Weber  00:10 
Okay.  
 
Angeline Frank  00:11 
I thought you want my maiden name. 
 
Winona Weber  00:13 
No, it's okay. I just-- I-- it's sort of as a reference, so that I know who I'm talking to when I'm 
listening to the tape.  
 
Angeline Frank  00:21 
For sure.  
 
Winona Weber  00:23 
Even though everybody I talked to so far has sounded so different; I don't have any trouble 
telling them apart.  You said you were born at Mud Bay?  
 
Angeline Frank  00:31 
Yeah.  
 
Winona Weber  00:33 
Page 2 of 29 
 
Oh. 
 
Angeline Frank  00:37 
April 15th, 1893. 
 
Winona Weber  00:38 
Boy. So how old does that make you now? 
 
Angeline Frank  00:54 
See... 1893. 
 
Winona Weber  00:55 
87? 
 
Angeline Frank  00:56 
What? 
 
Winona Weber  00:57 
87?  
 
Angeline Frank  00:58 
Yeah, that's it. Yeah, right around there. 
 
Winona Weber  01:02 
Were your-- you said you had an older sister?  
 
Angeline Frank  01:06 
Yeah.  
 
Winona Weber  01:07 
Which one-- what's her name? 
 
Angeline Frank  01:09 
Kate Smith. 
 
Winona Weber  01:10 
Kate Smith. Okay. 
 
Angeline Frank  01:14 
But she's gone, long time ago. 
 
Winona Weber  01:15 
Yeah, I figured that. She was old enough to have babies that you've had to take care of. 
 
Angeline Frank  01:21 
Yeah, she's got children. [?Little?] [?Al?] Smith, that's her son.  
Page 3 of 29 
 
 
Winona Weber  01:25 
Yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  01:27 
[?Buzz?] Smith, [?Dolly?] Smith. 
 
Winona Weber  01:29 
Just stick that over a little further. What-- did your sister Catherine-- did your mother work 
outside the home at all when you were small?  
 
Angeline Frank  01:45 
No. No, I don't know what Mama did, but she [inaudible] made baskets. You know them?  
 
Winona Weber  01:54 
Yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  01:55 
As far as I know, made them cedar root baskets.  
 
Winona Weber  02:00 
Yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  02:01 
They'd gather the roots and they fixed them, you know, split them up.  
 
Winona Weber  02:06 
Oh, boy.  
 
Angeline Frank  02:07 
And then they'd make those nice baskets.  
 
Winona Weber  02:12 
Uh-huh.  
 
Angeline Frank  02:12 
Indian baskets. I had some baskets that Mama told me to keep 'em, so I'd give them to my 
daughter. [Inaudible]. 
 
Winona Weber  02:30 
Did-- what types of baskets did your mother make? What all did you use the baskets for that she 
made? 
 
Angeline Frank  02:41 
Pick berries. 
 
Page 4 of 29 
 
Winona Weber  02:42 
They were mostly berry picking baskets? 
 
Angeline Frank  02:44 
Yes. Cedar root baskets.  
 
Winona Weber  02:45 
Yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  02:47 
She made them kind of basket. And she sold quite a bit of them.  
 
Winona Weber  02:50 
Oh, yeah. Did you know your grandparents? 
 
Angeline Frank  02:56 
Yeah, my grandfather. But I didn't know my grandmother. He-- she died, I guess, when we was 
kids.  
 
Winona Weber  03:06 
Before you were born, maybe? 
 
Angeline Frank  03:09 
The only one that I know now was grandpa's wife, you know?  
 
Winona Weber  03:14 
Oh, I see.  
 
Angeline Frank  03:14 
[?Stella?]. And we thought that was our grandma.  
 
Winona Weber  03:18 
Oh, yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  03:18 
[Laughs]. She was so good to us. 
 
Winona Weber  03:23 
Did they live close to you? So did you get to see them a lot?  
 
Angeline Frank  03:26 
Yeah, they lived right across the creek from where we lived.  
 
Winona Weber  03:29 
There at Mud Bay?  
 
Page 5 of 29 
 
Angeline Frank  03:30 
Uh-huh. 
 
Winona Weber  03:31 
Oh, boy. Did you did you get to go over and visit them a lot?  
 
Angeline Frank  03:35 
Oh, yeah. They-- she'd make bread, you know?  
 
Winona Weber  03:40 
Yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  03:41 
And then she'd call us over. And we'd all go there to eat [?with her?]. 
 
Winona Weber  03:46 
Oh, gee. That sounds good.  
 
Angeline Frank  03:48 
Oh, [inaudible]. 
 
Winona Weber  03:49 
What kind of bread would she make?  
 
Angeline Frank  03:52 
Well, kinda Indian bread, you know? She'd make the bread, then flatten it out.  
 
Winona Weber  03:59 
Uh-huh.  
 
Angeline Frank  03:59 
Flatten that out. And sometimes biscuits, and sometimes just a flat bread.  
 
Winona Weber  04:05 
Yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  04:06 
And that seemed like that big bread was-- tasted better than the biscuits [laughs].  
 
Winona Weber  04:12 
Oh, yeah. I can imagine. Was it a regular oven baked bread? 
 
Angeline Frank  04:17 
Yeah.  
 
Winona Weber  04:18 
Page 6 of 29 
 
Okay.  
 
Angeline Frank  04:18 
She flattened it out and baked it in the oven. 
 
Winona Weber  04:21 
Oh, gee, that sounds good. I love any kind of fresh bread. 
 
Angeline Frank  04:25 
[Crosstalk] they went camping; a long time ago, they'd make bread on a fire like that, on a frying 
pan.  
 
Winona Weber  04:32 
Yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  04:33 
Big frying pan, and then they'd flatten it out. [Inaudible] boy, that was good. 
 
Winona Weber  04:40 
Yeah, my mom talks about making bread in a big frying pan.  
 
Angeline Frank  04:44 
Yeah. [Laughs].  
 
Winona Weber  04:45 
She'd go to go camping with her aunt, or something.  
 
Angeline Frank  04:50 
Yeah.  
 
Winona Weber  04:50 
She'd make that.  
 
Angeline Frank  04:51 
Oh, boy they just-- they-- she wouldn't make enough.  
 
Winona Weber  04:56 
Uh-huh.  
 
Angeline Frank  04:56 
[Inaudible] where that went. 
 
Winona Weber  04:59 
Do you make that kind of bread? Do you know how to make that? 
 
Angeline Frank  05:02 
Page 7 of 29 
 
Yeah. Oh, I did, but no more.  
 
Winona Weber  05:05 
No more.  
 
Angeline Frank  05:06 
My daughter cooks for us now.  
 
Winona Weber  05:08 
Oh, that's [inaudible]. But she knows how? Does she know how? 
 
Angeline Frank  05:12 
I don't know whether she does or not. Seems like they make this yeast bread. 
 
Winona Weber  05:17 
Yeah, the yeast bread. It rises. 
 
Angeline Frank  05:20 
But [?Al's mother?] makes that kind of bread. 
 
Winona Weber  05:24 
That flat bread? 
 
Angeline Frank  05:24 
Uh-huh.  
 
Winona Weber  05:26 
Oh. I've had raw-- not rawhide, buckskin bread, where you bake it in the sand, you know?  
 
Angeline Frank  05:35 
Yeah.  
 
Winona Weber  05:37 
Yeah. Did you ever have some of that? Did your mother or your grandmother make that? 
 
Angeline Frank  05:42 
There was a Indian lady used to make that kind, and we used to get some from her.  
 
Winona Weber  05:49 
Yeah, I had that. I really liked that.  
 
Angeline Frank  05:52 
Yeah. Boy, that was good.  
 
Winona Weber  05:54 
Page 8 of 29 
 
My-- you-- did-- you spent all your childhood at Mud Bay, did you? You spent all the time you 
were growing up, you spent at Mud Bay? 
 
Angeline Frank  06:07 
Yeah, uh-huh.  
 
Winona Weber  06:08 
And your father was just a logger while you were living there?  
 
Angeline Frank  06:12 
Yeah. And he was half Indian. 
 
Winona Weber  06:15 
And what other was he? Was he half white?  
 
Angeline Frank  06:20 
Half white man--  
 
Winona Weber  06:22 
Uh-huh.  
 
Angeline Frank  06:22 
--and half Indian, Tulalip Indian.  
 
Winona Weber  06:24 
Yeah, Tulalip. You told me about that. Boy, that's a long ways away. If you think about it, back 
then, that was quite a ways. He was quite a ways from home.  You talked about your 
grandparents. Was it your mother's mother-- your mother's father, or your father's father that 
lived there by you? 
 
Angeline Frank  06:45 
Lived in Mud Bay?  
 
Winona Weber  06:47 
Yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  06:48 
Well, that was my mother's father.  
 
Winona Weber  06:53 
Okay, that's--  
 
Angeline Frank  06:53 
Lived across the creek from us.  
 
Winona Weber  06:55 
Page 9 of 29 
 
Yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  06:56 
There was a little creek, then. He lived on that side. 
 
Winona Weber  06:58 
All you said was grandparents. You didn't say whether it was your mother's or your father's 
folks. 
 
Angeline Frank  07:04 
Uh-huh. She used to-- they had a big house, you know? And grandpa had a nice [inaudible]. Oh, 
they had grandchildren staying with them, too. 
 
Winona Weber  07:14 
Yeah. All the time, I suppose. I know what you mean. I used to go and stay with my 
grandmother a lot when I was small.  
 
Angeline Frank  07:20 
And he had-- and my grandpa had an old brother. Older than [inaudible], I guess. And he was an 
old [inaudible], and cranky, ooh. 
 
Winona Weber  07:34 
[Laughs]. 
 
Angeline Frank  07:36 
School kids would be passing by from a school, you know? They have to cross on a boat. 
 
Winona Weber  07:44 
Yeah. 
 
Angeline Frank  07:45 
Go across. And he could say, "Get away!" That's all he knew, "Get away!" He didn't want to 
those kids to [inaudible]--  
 
Winona Weber  07:58 
Come near him, yeah. 
 
Angeline Frank  07:59 
Oh, he was just awful mean [?that day?]. But Grandpa, my mother's father-- 
 
Winona Weber  08:06 
Yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  08:06 
--oh, he was nice to nice to everybody. But he was [inaudible] Grand Uncle, you know?  
 
Page 10 of 29 
 
Winona Weber  08:16 
Yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  08:16 
And he was cranky, ooh. And kids don't-- he don't want no kids to stop and talk to him. But they 
stop and talk to Grandpa, Mama's father. And they like-- them kids liked [inaudible].  
 
Winona Weber  08:37 
Oh, yeah. I'll bet [laughs]. 
 
Angeline Frank  08:39 
And if he's got some, [inaudible]. Kids.  
 
Winona Weber  08:54 
Your grandfather, you-- his second wife was the one that you thought of as grandmother. Isn't 
that what you said?  
 
Angeline Frank  09:01 
Yeah, uh-huh.  
 
Winona Weber  09:02 
Was she the same age he was? 
 
Angeline Frank  09:05 
No, I think she was quite a bit younger.  
 
Winona Weber  09:08 
That's-- I was wondering.  
 
Angeline Frank  09:11 
She would-- she was a very nice woman. 
 
Winona Weber  09:15 
You called her grandmother? 
 
Angeline Frank  09:17 
Uh-huh.  
 
Winona Weber  09:18 
Yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  09:18 
Yeah, we called her "Grandma." She'd bake bread, you know? And boy, we thought that was the 
best bread we ever ate [laughs]. 
 
Winona Weber  09:29 
Page 11 of 29 
 
I'll bet it was good. Oh, I really like that.  You-- do you know how to make baskets? I don't 
remember whether you said you-- yeah, you said you knew how to make baskets. Who taught 
you to make baskets? 
 
Angeline Frank  09:45 
Well, this is, we call it, the white man basket. Raffia.  
 
Winona Weber  09:50 
Yeah, raffia.  
 
Angeline Frank  09:51 
That's what we-- that's what I could make, the raffia baskets. But Mama made the real Indian 
baskets.  
 
Winona Weber  09:58 
Yeah, the cedar root.  
 
Angeline Frank  10:00 
Cedar roots, uh-huh. They gather the cedar roots [inaudible] and then they split it, she split it up. 
 
Winona Weber  10:07 
Yeah. That's a lot of work, making those cedar baskets. Did your mother teach you or your-- or 
try to teach you or your sister Catherine how to make those baskets? 
 
Angeline Frank  10:18 
Yeah. But we never tried to make any baskets.  
 
Winona Weber  10:25 
Oh, really?  
 
Angeline Frank  10:26 
But we made the raffia baskets.  
 
Winona Weber  10:28 
Yeah. 
 
Angeline Frank  10:28 
Cattail, dry the cattail and then you sew the basket with a needle. [Laughs].  
 
Winona Weber  10:36 
Yeah, we make cattail baskets, but we hold them together with sweet grass. 
 
Angeline Frank  10:43 
Oh, yeah, there is sweet grass down [?there, get that down?]. 
 
Winona Weber  10:47 
Page 12 of 29 
 
Yeah, that's what we use with-- in our baskets. Mostly it's cattail and sweet grass. That's what 
our-- a lot of our baskets are made out of. 
 
Angeline Frank  10:56 
I think-- 
 
Winona Weber  11:00 
What's the matter? 
 
Angeline Frank  11:04 
I don't know what kind of a basket-- 
 
Winona Weber  11:07 
What kind of a basket-- 
 
Angeline Frank  11:15 
[Inaudible] took it all. 
 
Winona Weber  11:17 
Oh. Did you have a small basket? 
 
Angeline Frank  11:22 
Oh, I must have put it away up there. 
 
Winona Weber  11:24 
Oh, I see. 
 
Angeline Frank  11:26 
I've got a lot of old Indian pictures, too, you want to look at them?  
 
Winona Weber  11:29 
Yeah, I would like to look at them. [Tape noises.] Did most of your children marry Indian 
people-- marry Indian women, or...? 
 
Angeline Frank  11:40 
Well, my brother Ben, he married a white girl.  
 
Winona Weber  11:44 
Yeah?  
 
Angeline Frank  11:46 
And so they-- they all did.  
 
Winona Weber  11:49 
Oh really?  
 
Page 13 of 29 
 
Angeline Frank  11:52 
But Dewey, he didn't have no children.  
 
Winona Weber  11:55 
Oh, really?  
 
Angeline Frank  11:56 
His woman, I guess, just couldn't have any.  
 
Winona Weber  11:59 
One of them couldn't [laughs].  Where's this? 
 
Angeline Frank  12:07 
That's the depot up here, I think.  
 
Winona Weber  12:10 
At Nisqually, or...? 
 
Angeline Frank  12:15 
Yeah. Right up on top of the hill here.  
 
Winona Weber  12:17 
Uh-huh. There's a picture of an Indian on the back of it. I don't know what it is. I can't see it very 
good. 
 
Angeline Frank  12:29 
That's one of the kids, I guess, that went to school. 
 
Winona Weber  12:33 
Yeah.  Who's this? 
 
Angeline Frank  12:37 
That's-- oh that's just a white boy, and he chummed around with the kids.  
 
Winona Weber  12:47 
With your fr-- with your children? A lot of family pictures. 
 
Angeline Frank  12:52 
Yeah. 
 
Winona Weber  12:53 
When you-- did one of your brothers, or anything, were they in the army?  
 
Angeline Frank  13:04 
Yeah.  
 
Page 14 of 29 
 
Winona Weber  13:05 
Oh, boy. They really-- 
 
Angeline Frank  13:10 
The-- my son in law, [?grand?]-- my son in law is one of these men, but I don't know which. 
 
Winona Weber  13:17 
In the infantry, was that what it was?  
 
Angeline Frank  13:20 
Yeah.  
 
Winona Weber  13:21 
Yeah, they're kind of hard to pick out when they're all in a big group like that. 
 
Angeline Frank  13:26 
Yeah. [?Dave Miles?]. Nez Perce.  
 
Winona Weber  13:29 
A Nez Perce. Huh. 1931, it says. "Escort of honor." Wonder what they were escorting.  Oh, gee, 
this thing. Oh, it's a picture of a guy in a boat, but it's almost ruined. Lots of baby pictures. What 
is this? 
 
Angeline Frank  13:56 
That's [inaudible]. They had a parade, there, you know?  
 
Winona Weber  14:04 
Yeah. Just-- is there any-- is that someone you know, or was it just a picture taken of the people 
going by? 
 
Angeline Frank  14:12 
This was-- I think this was my daughter in law's mother, or grandmother, or something. 
 
Winona Weber  14:17 
Oh, really?  
 
Angeline Frank  14:18 
They rode a horse there; there were [?old people?] [inaudible], that was that only transportation. 
Horseback.  
 
Winona Weber  14:25 
Uh-huh. About when was that taken? Do you know?  
 
Angeline Frank  14:28 
Huh?  
 
Page 15 of 29 
 
Winona Weber  14:29 
About when was that taken? 
 
Angeline Frank  14:31 
I couldn't remember, but I think Edith-- I'm gonna tell her to write down-- write on the back.  
 
Winona Weber  14:37 
Yeah. Really useful. It's a good idea to write down, you know, what-- who it is and why-- what 
they're doing. 
 
Angeline Frank  14:48 
And those that had kids, you know, they had a board. You know, they strap them on that board, 
and they hook it on a saddlehorn.  
 
Winona Weber  14:55 
Yeah? 
 
Angeline Frank  14:56 
That's the way they travel. 
 
Winona Weber  14:58 
That's r-- that's a good way. Did you ever put any of your babies in a cradleboard? In a cradle? I-
- my grandmother had a ba-- had a cradle basket-like thing that you had. 
 
Angeline Frank  15:11 
Yeah. Well that's the way my-- my granddaughter I was showing you? 
 
Winona Weber  15:16 
Yeah. 
 
Angeline Frank  15:17 
That's the way she has her baby. She's afraid she might hurt it. And she puts it on that board and 
then she's not afraid. 
 
Winona Weber  15:25 
[Gasps].  You think it's a good idea to have-- keep babies in those cradleboards? 
 
Angeline Frank  15:30 
Yeah. When they travel. 
 
Winona Weber  15:32 
Yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  15:33 
But she don't have it on that board all the time. He has--  
 
Page 16 of 29 
 
Winona Weber  15:36 
Oh, yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  15:36 
She has it on a bed, and then he's kickin' and everything. 
 
Winona Weber  15:40 
Oh, yeah. 
 
Angeline Frank  15:42 
But when she takes him out, and then she puts them on a board. 
 
Winona Weber  15:47 
How long did you keep your babies in the in the cradleboard? How old were they when you 
didn't carry them like that anymore, usually?  
 
Angeline Frank  15:57 
Well, when they get the-- when they get big enough and they don't want to be in there.  
 
Winona Weber  16:03 
Uh-huh.  
 
Angeline Frank  16:03 
So they have to put it away and--  
 
Winona Weber  16:07 
Wait for the next one. 
 
Angeline Frank  16:07 
--see if he wants to get out and walk around, now. Crawl, or-- 
 
Winona Weber  16:12 
Usually till they're--  
 
Angeline Frank  16:13 
Yeah.  
 
Winona Weber  16:14 
--crawling and walking pretty good, huh? 
 
Angeline Frank  16:16 
Crawl, boy, they get into all kinds of mischief. 
 
Winona Weber  16:19 
[Laughs] My little girl is eight years old now, but she's still real good at getting into mischief 
[laughs]. 
Page 17 of 29 
 
 
Angeline Frank  16:28 
Yeah. See, you spoil them when they're little, and they grow up that way. 
 
Winona Weber  16:36 
I think her grandma had a little bit to do with that.  
 
Angeline Frank  16:39 
Yeah, that's a part of it. The grandma's the one that pets 'em. 
 
Winona Weber  16:44 
[Laughs] Well, grandma doesn't have to take care of them full time, I suppose.  When you said 
your-- your mother sold baskets. You-- did you-- you said your mother sold a lot of baskets, 
didn't you?  
 
Angeline Frank  17:00 
Yeah. 
 
Winona Weber  17:01 
Where would she go to sell them?  
 
Angeline Frank  17:04 
Well, anybody that wants to buy 'em.  
 
Winona Weber  17:07 
Uh-huh.  
 
Angeline Frank  17:08 
But my daughter has some of the baskets, old baskets she-- Mama never made them. She had-- 
just kept the bottom, you know, to pick berries in.  
 
Winona Weber  17:20 
Yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  17:20 
So I give to my granddaughter-- my daughter.  
 
Winona Weber  17:24 
Oh, yeah. Did people come to your house to buy baskets, or did your mother go somewhere? 
 
Angeline Frank  17:32 
No, they come to buy 'em.  
 
Winona Weber  17:34 
They come to your house? Oh, boy. She must have been well known for her baskets. 
 
Page 18 of 29 
 
Angeline Frank  17:39 
Oh, yeah. Well, we live mostly among white people.  
 
Winona Weber  17:43 
Yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  17:46 
There was Mud Bay, that's where we lived. Moved to white people [?only?].  
 
Winona Weber  17:51 
Yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  17:52 
And then Oyster Bay, that's where all the Indians were.  
 
Winona Weber  17:55 
Uh-huh. Just-- it was across the-- it was across the-- what do you call it? The-- well, there's a 
road there now.  
 
Angeline Frank  18:10 
There's Oyster Bay, and Mud Bay, and--  --Squaxin Island. But that's a island, though, little 
island. 
 
Winona Weber  18:14 
Yeah?  Oh, you've got Rachel Whitish in here. Rachel [?Whitish?]. 
 
Angeline Frank  18:28 
Yeah, she's from Taholah.  
 
Winona Weber  18:31 
Yeah, that's my cousin.  
 
Angeline Frank  18:32 
Oh, yeah [laughs]. She was married to-- 
 
Winona Weber  18:34 
[?Rawley?]. [?Rawley?] Frank. 
 
Angeline Frank  18:42 
Ernie, I think. 
 
Winona Weber  18:43 
Ernie. That's right. Ernie. [?Rawley?] is her son.  
 
Angeline Frank  18:46 
Yeah.  
Page 19 of 29 
 
 
Winona Weber  18:46 
[Inaudible]. Is Ernie Frank related to you? Or Bill? 
 
Angeline Frank  18:51 
He was [inaudible]'s son, yeah.  
 
Winona Weber  18:52 
Oh, I see. I didn't know that. No. Well, that's interesting. Yeah. She's got [?Rawley?] and 
Lorraine. Two children that are living-- well, one child is living down in [?Tokeland?] now. 
Down there by-- they just put up some new houses down there.  
 
Angeline Frank  19:14 
They don't come to see-- they don't come to visit us.  
 
Winona Weber  19:19 
Oh, really?  
 
Angeline Frank  19:20 
None of them. 
 
Winona Weber  19:21 
Hmm. That's funny. Because boy, everybody's always down there a lot.  Gee, these are old.  
 
Angeline Frank  19:34 
Yeah, those are real old pictures.  
 
Winona Weber  19:38 
These old negatives, you don't-- they don't make them like that anymore. You know, they don't-- 
they don't use this kind of negative anymore. I can't-- well, it doesn't have a-- usually has a brand 
name, you know, on the edge. Kodak safety film, it's called.  If your-- did your grandmother 
make baskets, too? Your mother's stepmother? Did she make the baskets, too? 
 
Angeline Frank  20:10 
No. But she made a lot of these mats. Mats, you know? 
 
Winona Weber  20:17 
Uh-huh. The big mats?  
 
Angeline Frank  20:19 
Uh-huh. Then you could make [?houses out?]. She-- they fixed them so that they won't leak.  
 
Winona Weber  20:26 
Yeah. I've seen pictures of those. They call them summer camps. They'd have poles.  
 
Angeline Frank  20:32 
Page 20 of 29 
 
Yeah.  
 
Winona Weber  20:33 
Did you ever watch her make those?  
 
Angeline Frank  20:35 
No. I never watch them, but she used to-- I never-- well, we was kids, you know. Don't pay 
attention to that.  
 
Winona Weber  20:41 
Yeah, you don't, yeah. They'll always be there, so why watch 'em?  
 
Angeline Frank  20:45 
[Laughs].  
 
Winona Weber  20:45 
Yeah. I know what you mean [laughs]. Oh.  
 
Angeline Frank  20:49 
Then they make those things to pack baskets with, you know. They weave them, [?it's a--?] it's a 
yarn. They weave them back and forth.  
 
Winona Weber  21:03 
The strap?  
 
Angeline Frank  21:04 
Straps, yeah.  
 
Winona Weber  21:05 
What did you guys call them? Just a... 
 
Angeline Frank  21:08 
Well, straps to make the-- well, the way I seen my grandma make it -- that is, my grandfather's 
wife.  
 
Winona Weber  21:16 
Yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  21:18 
She'd take the sacks to pieces. You know these sacks?  
 
Winona Weber  21:23 
Yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  21:23 
Unravel 'em and then--  
Page 21 of 29 
 
 
Winona Weber  21:24 
Gunny sack type?  
 
Angeline Frank  21:26 
Uh-huh. 
 
Winona Weber  21:26 
I see. 
 
Angeline Frank  21:27 
And then she'd take 'em and fix 'em, you know, like that.  
 
Winona Weber  21:32 
Yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  21:33 
And then she'd weave it on. That's the way she made hers. Boy, they were pretty.  
 
Winona Weber  21:40 
Oh, really? Would she dye them or something, to make 'em--?  
 
Angeline Frank  21:44 
No, she'd [?buy all?] the yarn, you know?  
 
Winona Weber  21:46 
Oh, I see. And weave it in with that.  
 
Angeline Frank  21:48 
Yeah, uh-huh. 
 
Winona Weber  21:49 
Oh, I see. Okay. Yeah, I understand that. 
 
Angeline Frank  21:52 
Yeah, that's the way she made it.  
 
Winona Weber  21:53 
Oh, wow. I really-- who did I know? Where was the strap? How did you hold it? Was it was it 
the head strap, or hand?  
 
Angeline Frank  22:06 
No, the strap that has a... maybe it's braided.  
 
Winona Weber  22:14 
Yeah.  
Page 22 of 29 
 
 
Angeline Frank  22:14 
About that long, maybe. And onto the basket, and then you tie that onto the basket.  
 
Winona Weber  22:20 
Yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  22:21 
Then the strap [inaudible] carry. 
 
Winona Weber  22:23 
Goes over your shoulder.  
 
Angeline Frank  22:24 
Uh-huh.  
 
Winona Weber  22:24 
Okay, because I've seen them that goes around their head.  
 
Angeline Frank  22:27 
Yeah, they put a [inaudible] thing like that.  
 
Winona Weber  22:29 
Yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  22:30 
The strap. 
 
Winona Weber  22:32 
Across their forehead like this? 
 
Angeline Frank  22:33 
Yeah. 
 
Winona Weber  22:33 
Yeah, I've seen those straps. 
 
Angeline Frank  22:36 
Well, that's the kind of strap that grandma used to make.  
 
Winona Weber  22:39 
Oh, boy. Burden strap, sort of?  
 
Angeline Frank  22:42 
Uh-huh. 
 
Page 23 of 29 
 
Winona Weber  22:42 
Yeah, my-- hmm?  
 
Angeline Frank  22:45 
They make fancy ones and pretty ones and plain, just plain yarn.  
 
Winona Weber  22:54 
Oh, boy. Yeah, he-- my aunt talks about how she knew this woman, she could carry everything 
with-- on a basket hanging from her head. Boy, she'd just load down that basket, and away she'd 
go. And she could carry a lot of weight that way. 
 
Angeline Frank  23:17 
Like Grandpa and Grandma I'll tell you about; they lived across the creek.  
 
Winona Weber  23:22 
Yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  23:23 
And he didn't want my folks, my father and them, to bother with them to get wood.  
 
Winona Weber  23:31 
Yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  23:32 
They'd go and cut their bark, and then they'd cut their own wood. And then they'd carry it with 
that strap on their head like that. And Pop would tell them, "Just tell me, and I'll haul the wood 
for you." No, no, no, no, they do their own. They're strong enough to take care of themselves yet. 
 
Winona Weber  23:54 
Yeah. 
 
Angeline Frank  23:55 
All that kind of talk, you know? 
 
Winona Weber  23:59 
They could use those... What would they use to carry the wood? Would they use a basket, or a 
framework, or...? 
 
Angeline Frank  24:07 
No, they'd take the strap, and then they-- oh, the baskets, yeah, they had little straps on [?up 
there?]. Oh, I had [inaudible], but she took hers now.  
 
Winona Weber  24:20 
Yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  24:22 
Page 24 of 29 
 
I don't think I've got no more baskets.  
 
Winona Weber  24:25 
Okay.  
 
Angeline Frank  24:26 
I'll look and see, but [inaudible]. 
 
Winona Weber  24:28 
That's my cousin.  
 
Angeline Frank  24:30 
Oh, oh yeah. Myrtle.  
 
Winona Weber  24:31 
Yeah, she's my cousin.  
 
Angeline Frank  24:34 
Myrtle Charley.  
 
Winona Weber  24:35 
Yeah, Myrtle Charley.  
 
Angeline Frank  24:36 
Yeah. She was married to my nephew. [Tape noises] 
 
Winona Weber  24:41 
And this is the cedar root basket?  
 
Angeline Frank  24:43 
Yeah.  
 
Winona Weber  24:44 
Yeah, I've seen them before. That's hard. Really tough.  Oh, boy. Did you do any traveling when 
you were a little girl? Did your family travel?  
 
Angeline Frank  25:10 
Not much.  
 
Winona Weber  25:11 
What-- where-- what did you do? What did you travel for when you did? 
 
Angeline Frank  25:16 
We went to Yakima, that's all.  
 
Winona Weber  25:19 
Page 25 of 29 
 
To what?  
 
Angeline Frank  25:21 
Well, to see my granddaughter's-- my granddaughter is a Nez Perce.  
 
Winona Weber  25:31 
Uh-huh.  
 
Angeline Frank  25:32 
And then her mother lived in Yakima.  
 
Winona Weber  25:34 
Oh, I see. But I mean, when you were a little girl, did your family travel at all when you visit--? 
 
Angeline Frank  25:41 
Unh-uh, not much.  
 
Winona Weber  25:42 
Not much?  
 
Angeline Frank  25:43 
Unh-uh.  
 
Winona Weber  25:43 
Did you ever-- did you guys ever travel to do any trading or anything?  
 
Angeline Frank  25:47 
No.  
 
Winona Weber  25:48 
I see. You lived on-- you did-- trying to think of--  
 
Angeline Frank  25:59 
[?Been?] to Yakima. Mostly, they make beaded bags.  
 
Winona Weber  26:03 
Yeah, they do. I've seen some of theirs. They're really good at that. I talked to a woman that did 
beading and oh, she does beautiful work. She-- but she's not from Yakima. She's from further 
north. She's a Spokane Indian. Boy, she's really good at that.  
 
Angeline Frank  26:26 
And oh, they make beautiful things. 
 
Winona Weber  26:29 
Uh-huh. You said you were 18 when you married... Andrew McCloud, was it? 
 
Page 26 of 29 
 
Angeline Frank  26:42 
No, Frederick.  
 
Winona Weber  26:43 
Frederick McCloud? 
 
Angeline Frank  26:45 
No, Frederick, Steve Frederick.  
 
Winona Weber  26:47 
Steve Frederick. Oh, I didn't have him down. I don't know why. Got everything else. Who-- did 
you have any children with him? 
 
Angeline Frank  27:01 
Just my oldest daughter Rosie. She's gone now.  
 
Winona Weber  27:03 
Oh, I see. Where did you live when when you were married to Steve Frederick? 
 
Angeline Frank  27:10 
At Mud Bay there, not very far from where my folks lived. And he-- ooh, he liked to drink. 
 
Winona Weber  27:19 
Oh, I see.  
 
Angeline Frank  27:23 
Then-- oh, he wasn't mean or anything, but you don't like a drunk person.  
 
Winona Weber  27:30 
No.  Not really. [Inaudible] can get tired.  
 
Angeline Frank  27:31 
You get sick of him.  So I left him.  
 
Winona Weber  27:36 
Oh, I see.  
 
Angeline Frank  27:37 
Then I married McCloud.  
 
Winona Weber  27:40 
Yeah. How long did your daughter Rose live? How old was she when she died?  
 
Angeline Frank  27:46 
Oh, she got hurt in a wreck. Oh, she was about like that girl that I was showing you, my 
granddaughter.  
Page 27 of 29 
 
 
Winona Weber  27:55 
Oh, Karen.  
 
Angeline Frank  27:55 
Yeah, about like her. 
 
Winona Weber  27:57 
She was just a young woman then, huh?  
 
Angeline Frank  27:59 
Yeah. 
 
Winona Weber  28:00 
Oh, that's [crosstalk]. 
 
Angeline Frank  28:01 
And they got in a wreck [inaudible]. Died in the hospital [inaudible]. 
 
Winona Weber  28:05 
Yeah. [?I've seen that happen?]. Did you live? 
 
Angeline Frank  28:14 
Well, there was two of them that got hurt on that wreck. Myrtle Charley.  
 
Winona Weber  28:21 
Oh, really? 
 
Angeline Frank  28:21 
Uh-huh. 
 
Winona Weber  28:23 
Oh. Hmm. Yeah, I know her real well. Who's this with her? Is that a relative of yours? 
 
Angeline Frank  28:34 
I don't know who [inaudible]. I don't think I--  
 
Winona Weber  28:35 
I was just wondering, because you had that picture of her. I thought maybe it was it was 
[crosstalk]-- 
 
Angeline Frank  28:43 
[Inaudible], I think.  
 
Winona Weber  28:43 
Page 28 of 29 
 
Oh, I see. Huh, I don't recognize her at all. I just recognize Myrtle there. Myrtle knew your 
daughter Rose, huh? 
 
Angeline Frank  28:58 
Yeah, well she married my nephew, [?Freddie Reed?].  
 
Winona Weber  29:06 
Yeah. Yeah. I-- she told me that she was with him for a while. I interviewed her, too. She was 
one of the women that I interviewed when I was down that way. I got to talk to her for quite a 
while. 
 
Angeline Frank  29:24 
She was a-- she-- her mother was Katherine. 
 
Winona Weber  29:30 
Yeah, Katherine--  
 
Angeline Frank  29:32 
That was the Andrew McCloud's sister.  
 
Winona Weber  29:35 
Oh, I see. Yeah, I know. Aunt Katherine just died here, just a few years ago. 
 
Angeline Frank  29:47 
I think-- whatever did happen to her? Burned, I think.  Yeah, well we heard that she burnt, and 
then, well that didn't-- the burn didn't kill her. That was, I guess, I don't know. 
 
Winona Weber  29:51 
Yeah, she-- well, they say she was burned, and then she just sort of died from the shock of the 
burn. That happens sometimes. The person is--  They get injured, and they die just from the 
shock to their body, not so much the injuries. 
 
Angeline Frank  30:02 
Oh, yeah.  
 
Winona Weber  30:07 
I don't know. 
 
Angeline Frank  30:22 
She didn't burn to death? 
 
Winona Weber  30:23 
No. She went back-- she-- I forget how she got burned, but she did that, and she went in and laid 
down on her bed. And that's where she died. 
 
Angeline Frank  30:35 
Page 29 of 29 
 
Well, this is the way they told me; I don't know how true it is.  
 
Winona Weber  30:39 
Yeah.  
 
Angeline Frank  30:39 
Told us that her apron caught on fire. 
 
Winona Weber  30:42 
Yeah, that's what it was. I couldn't remember exactly what it-- how she got caught on fire. I just 
knew that she got burned. And she was-- and then she went in and she laid down, and that's 
where she died.  
 
Angeline Frank  30:54 
Yeah, uh-huh.  
 
Winona Weber  30:55 
She didn't burn up. 
 
Angeline Frank  30:58 
I hadn't seen her for a long-- she must have been quite old [inaudible]. 
 
Winona Weber  31:02 
Yeah, she's seventy-- 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 